Difference between revisions of "Secondary Abilities"

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;[[Main Page]] x [[Abilities]]
 
[[File:The Kamut.jpg]]
 
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'''Why the errata''':  2nd edition introduced the idea of secondary skills:  They were defined as skills that were less applicable than "regular" skills, and could therefore be bought more cheaply.  In practice, a secondary skill was any skill that wasn't on the character sheet.
  
−
<span style="color:#800000;">'''Why the errata''':  2nd edition introduced the idea of secondary skills:  They were defined as skills that were less applicable than "regular" skills, and could therefore be bought more cheaply.  In practice, a secondary skill was any skill that wasn't on the character sheet.
+
It became clear that many of these "secondary skills" are just as general than those included in the standard set.  Each of White-Wolf's parallel games (Mage, Werewolf, etc.) have their own slightly different set of perfectly legitimate "standard" skills.  3rd edition dropped the concept, and it hasn't been picked up again.  Instead, the most current rules require that all skills, no matter how specialized, cost the same basic amount.
  
−
<span style="color:#800000;">It became clear that many of these "secondary skills" are just as general than those included in the standard set.  Each of White-Wolf's parallel games (Mage, Werewolf, etc.) have their own slightly different set of perfectly legitimate "standard" skills.  3rd edition dropped the concept, and it hasn't been picked up again.  Instead, the most current rules require that all skills, no matter how specialized, cost the same basic amount.
+
Several "alternate" skills, such as ''dreaming'', ''meditation'', and ''memory'' have become important (perhaps vital) in our game, however, and some characters have bought others like ''seduction'' and ''game-play''.
  
−
<span style="color:#800000;">Several "alternate" skills, such as ''dreaming'', ''meditation'', and ''memory'' have become important (perhaps vital) in our game, however, and some characters have bought others like ''seduction'' and ''game-play''.
+
There has always been a certain amount of overlap between some skills, and some things are extremely narrow, but not adequately covered by general skills.  For instance Dark Ages and Modern rules use different skills to accurately place a lightning bolt:  One uses firearms while the other uses archery.  Both are equally legitimate (or perhaps illegitimate), but archery certainly cannot be used to accurately fire a gun.  Perhaps a specific skill, such as ''visual estimation'' could be used instead.
  
−
<span style="color:#800000;">There has always been a certain amount of overlap between some skills, and some things are extremely narrow, but not adequately covered by general skills.  For instance Dark Ages and Modern rules use different skills to accurately place a lightning bolt:  One uses firearms while the other uses archery.  Both are equally legitimate (or perhaps illegitimate), but archery certainly cannot be used to accurately fire a gun. Perhaps a specific skill, such as ''visual estimation'' could be used instead.
+
'''The rule''': If a character chooses to buy a more ''specific skill'', he must pay the full experience price to do so.  However, there is an advantage: Depending on how specific the skill is, the character rolls at a reduced difficulty compared to someone who is using the general skill.
  
−
<span style="color:#800000;">'''The rule''':  If a character chooses to buy a more ''specific skill'', he must pay the full experience price to do so.  However, there is an advantage:  Depending on how specific the skill is, the character rolls at a reduced difficulty compared to someone who is using the general skill.
+
'''For example''': ''Enigmas'' is a general skill that covers puzzles of all sorts.  It can be used to play games, unravel puzzles, and discern tactics (among other things.)  Thus, the standard opposed roll for playing Chess is Intelligence + enigmas = 6. If a character chooses to specialize in ''game-play'', he could roll Intelligence + board games = 5 vs his opponent's difficulty of 6.  A character could choose to further specialize by taking the skill ''chess''.  This skill is so narrowly specialized that his difficulty is reduced by 2, and the character would roll Intelligence + Chess = 4.
  
−
<span style="color:#800000;">'''For example''':  ''Enigmas'' is a general skill that covers puzzles of all sorts.  It can be used to play games, unravel puzzles, and discern tactics (among other things.)  Thus, the standard opposed roll for playing Chess is Intelligence + enigmas = 6.  If a character chooses to specialize in ''game-play'', he could roll Intelligence + board games = 5 vs his opponent's difficulty of 6.  A character could choose to further specialize by taking the skill ''chess''. This skill is so narrowly specialized that his difficulty is reduced by 2, and the character would roll Intelligence + Chess = 4.
+
I do not think it is legitimate to take a skill that is so ridiculously specialized as to merit a 3 point difficulty reduction.  This would be akin to taking the skill ''driving in reverse while parallel parking.''  However, skill specializations still apply, such as ''Chess: Endgame''.
  
−
<span style="color:#800000;">I do not think it is legitimate to take a skill that is so ridiculously specialized as to merit a 3 point difficulty reduction. This would be akin to taking the skill ''driving in reverse while parallel parking.''  However, skill specializations still apply, such as ''Chess: Endgame''.
+
== <u>'''Alternate Talents'''</u> ==
−
 
 
−
== <span style="color:#800000;"> <u>'''Alternate Talents'''</u> ==
 
 
* -- [[Acting]]
 
* -- [[Acting]]
 
* -- [[Artistic Expression]]
 
* -- [[Artistic Expression]]
Line 23: Line 24:
 
* -- [[Enigmas]]
 
* -- [[Enigmas]]
 
* -- [[Expression]]
 
* -- [[Expression]]
 +
* -- [[Flying]] (Innate Talent)
 
* -- [[Fortune Telling]]
 
* -- [[Fortune Telling]]
 
* -- [[Haggling]]
 
* -- [[Haggling]]
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* -- [[Interrogation]]
 
* -- [[Interrogation]]
 
* -- [[Intrigue]]
 
* -- [[Intrigue]]
 +
* -- [[Intuition]]
 +
* -- [[Kenning]] -- {''Dark Ages Fae''}
 +
* -- [[Legerdemain]] -- {''Dark Ages''}
 
* -- [[Lucid Dreaming]]
 
* -- [[Lucid Dreaming]]
 
* -- [[Masquerade]]
 
* -- [[Masquerade]]
 
* -- [[Mimicry]]
 
* -- [[Mimicry]]
 
* -- [[Panhandling]]
 
* -- [[Panhandling]]
 +
* -- [[Primal-Urge]] (Possessed by Werewolves and other Changing Breeds)
 
* -- [[Public Speaking]]
 
* -- [[Public Speaking]]
 
* -- [[Scan]]
 
* -- [[Scan]]
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* -- [[Ventriloquism]]
 
* -- [[Ventriloquism]]
  
−
== <span style="color:#800000;"><u>'''Alternate Skills'''</u> ==
+
== <u>'''Alternate Skills'''</u> ==
 
* -- [[Acrobatics]]
 
* -- [[Acrobatics]]
 
* -- [[Animal Training]]
 
* -- [[Animal Training]]
 
* -- [[Archery]]
 
* -- [[Archery]]
 +
* -- [[Art of Memory (Classical)]]
 
* -- [[Artillery]]
 
* -- [[Artillery]]
 
* -- [[Blacksmith]]
 
* -- [[Blacksmith]]
Line 52: Line 59:
 
* -- [[Blood Preparation]]  <span style="color:#800000;">(mostly Tal'meh'Ra)
 
* -- [[Blood Preparation]]  <span style="color:#800000;">(mostly Tal'meh'Ra)
 
* -- [[Boat Handling]]
 
* -- [[Boat Handling]]
 +
* -- [[Body Crafts]]
 
* -- [[Brewing/Distilling]]
 
* -- [[Brewing/Distilling]]
 
* -- [[Bribery]]
 
* -- [[Bribery]]
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* -- [[Demolitions]]
 
* -- [[Demolitions]]
 
* -- [[Disguise]]
 
* -- [[Disguise]]
 +
* -- [[Dream Manipulation]]
 
* -- [[Escapology]]
 
* -- [[Escapology]]
 
* -- [[Falconry]]
 
* -- [[Falconry]]
 
* -- [[Fast-Draw]]
 
* -- [[Fast-Draw]]
 
* -- [[Fast-Talk]]
 
* -- [[Fast-Talk]]
 +
* -- [[Fire Eating]]
 
* -- [[Fire Dancing]] <span style="color:#800000;">(mostly Sabbat)
 
* -- [[Fire Dancing]] <span style="color:#800000;">(mostly Sabbat)
 
* -- [[First Aid]]
 
* -- [[First Aid]]
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* -- [[Research]]
 
* -- [[Research]]
 
* -- [[Ride]]
 
* -- [[Ride]]
 +
* -- [[Ritualism]]
 
* -- [[Scuba]]
 
* -- [[Scuba]]
 
* -- [[Singing]]
 
* -- [[Singing]]
Line 102: Line 113:
 
* -- [[Traps]]
 
* -- [[Traps]]
  
−
== <span style="color:#800000;"> <u>'''Alternate Knowledges'''</u> ==
+
== <u>'''Alternate Knowledges'''</u> ==
 
* -- [[Accounting]]
 
* -- [[Accounting]]
 
* -- [[AIchemy]]
 
* -- [[AIchemy]]
 +
* -- [[Ancient Languages]]
 
* -- [[Anthropology]]
 
* -- [[Anthropology]]
 
* -- [[Archaeology]]
 
* -- [[Archaeology]]
Line 111: Line 123:
 
* -- [[Art History]]
 
* -- [[Art History]]
 
* -- [[Art of Memory (Black Hand)]]
 
* -- [[Art of Memory (Black Hand)]]
−
* -- [[Art of Memory (Classical)]]
 
 
* -- [[Astrology]]
 
* -- [[Astrology]]
 
* -- [[Astronomy]]
 
* -- [[Astronomy]]
 
* -- [[Biology]]
 
* -- [[Biology]]
−
* -- [[Black Hand Lore]]  <span style="color:#800000;">(mostly Sabbat)
 
 
* -- [[Bureaucracy]]
 
* -- [[Bureaucracy]]
−
* -- [[Camarilla Lore]]
 
 
* -- [[Chemistry]]
 
* -- [[Chemistry]]
 
* -- [[City Secrets]]
 
* -- [[City Secrets]]
 
* -- [[Clan Knowledge]]
 
* -- [[Clan Knowledge]]
 
* -- [[Computer Hacking]]
 
* -- [[Computer Hacking]]
 +
* -- [[Conspiracy Theory]]
 +
* -- [[Cosmology]]
 
* -- [[Criminology]]
 
* -- [[Criminology]]
 
* -- [[Cryptography]]
 
* -- [[Cryptography]]
 
* -- [[Demonology]] <span style="color:#800000;">(found on pg. 41 of the Clan-Book: Baali)
 
* -- [[Demonology]] <span style="color:#800000;">(found on pg. 41 of the Clan-Book: Baali)
 +
* -- [[Dragon Lore]] -- Found on pg.19-29 of the Bygone Bestiary
 
* -- [[Economics]]
 
* -- [[Economics]]
 
* -- [[Electronics]]
 
* -- [[Electronics]]
 
* -- [[Engineering]]
 
* -- [[Engineering]]
−
* -- [[Faerie Lore]]
 
 
* -- [[Floriography]]
 
* -- [[Floriography]]
 
* -- [[Forensics]]
 
* -- [[Forensics]]
 
* -- [[Geography]]
 
* -- [[Geography]]
 
* -- [[Geology]]
 
* -- [[Geology]]
 +
* -- [[Gramarye]] -- {''Dark Ages Fae''}
 
* -- [[Heraldry]]
 
* -- [[Heraldry]]
 
* -- [[History]]
 
* -- [[History]]
−
* -- [[Kindred Lore]]
 
 
* -- [[Literature]]
 
* -- [[Literature]]
−
* -- [[Lupine Lore]]
+
* -- [[Lore: Anarch]]
−
* -- [[Mage Lore]]
+
* -- [[Lore: Assamite]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Black Hand]]  <span style="color:#800000;">(mostly Sabbat)
 +
* -- [[Lore: Brujah]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Cainite]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Camarilla]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Criminal Cartel]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Fae (Scientific version)]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Fae (Superstitious version)]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Gangrel]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Ghilan]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Giovanni]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Grimoire]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Hypnovatiz]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Lasombra]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Lupine]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Mage]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Malkavian]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Masks of Dii Consentes]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Maneki-neko]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Midnight Circus]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Mummy]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Order of Hermes]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Orpheus]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Rakshasa]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Sabbat]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Settite]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Sewer]] (found on pg. 31 of the Storytellers Companion to Vampire the Masquerade -- Revised)
 +
* -- [[Lore: Spirts]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Toreador]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Tremere]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: True Brujah]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Tzmisce]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Umbra]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Underworld]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Ventrue]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Wraith]]
 +
* -- [[Lore: Wyrm]]
 
* -- [[Mathematics]]
 
* -- [[Mathematics]]
 
* -- [[Metallurgy]]
 
* -- [[Metallurgy]]
 
* -- [[Meteorology]]
 
* -- [[Meteorology]]
 
* -- [[Military Science]]
 
* -- [[Military Science]]
−
* -- [[Mummy Lore]]
 
 
* -- [[Naturalist]]
 
* -- [[Naturalist]]
−
* -- [[Necrocartography]] (geography of the Underworld -- also known as Underworld Lore)
+
* -- [[Parapsychology]]  
−
* -- [[Necromnemonics]] <span style="color:#800000;">(A knowledge developed by [[Phineus Niger]])
 
 
* -- [[Physics]]
 
* -- [[Physics]]
 
* -- [[Plague-Breeding]] <span style="color:#800000;">(found on pg. 41 - 42 of the Clan-Book: Baali)
 
* -- [[Plague-Breeding]] <span style="color:#800000;">(found on pg. 41 - 42 of the Clan-Book: Baali)
 
* -- [[Psychology]]
 
* -- [[Psychology]]
−
* -- [[Sabbat Lore]]
+
* -- [[Rituals]] (Kuei-jin - KOTE pg.86)
−
* -- [[Sewer Lore]] <span style="color:#800000;">(found on pg. 31 of the Storytellers Companion to Vampire the Masquerade -- Revised)
+
* -- [[Technology]]
−
* -- [[Spirit Lore]]
 
 
* -- [[Thanatology]]
 
* -- [[Thanatology]]
 
* -- [[Theology]]
 
* -- [[Theology]]
 
* -- [[Toxicology]]
 
* -- [[Toxicology]]
−
* -- [[Underworld Lore]]  (organized crime)
+
----
−
* -- [[Wyrm Lore]]
+
http://www.angelfire.com/de2/createvtm/skills2.html

Latest revision as of 19:38, 26 September 2024

Main Page x Abilities

The Kamut.jpg

Why the errata: 2nd edition introduced the idea of secondary skills: They were defined as skills that were less applicable than "regular" skills, and could therefore be bought more cheaply. In practice, a secondary skill was any skill that wasn't on the character sheet.

It became clear that many of these "secondary skills" are just as general than those included in the standard set. Each of White-Wolf's parallel games (Mage, Werewolf, etc.) have their own slightly different set of perfectly legitimate "standard" skills. 3rd edition dropped the concept, and it hasn't been picked up again. Instead, the most current rules require that all skills, no matter how specialized, cost the same basic amount.

Several "alternate" skills, such as dreaming, meditation, and memory have become important (perhaps vital) in our game, however, and some characters have bought others like seduction and game-play.

There has always been a certain amount of overlap between some skills, and some things are extremely narrow, but not adequately covered by general skills. For instance Dark Ages and Modern rules use different skills to accurately place a lightning bolt: One uses firearms while the other uses archery. Both are equally legitimate (or perhaps illegitimate), but archery certainly cannot be used to accurately fire a gun. Perhaps a specific skill, such as visual estimation could be used instead.

The rule: If a character chooses to buy a more specific skill, he must pay the full experience price to do so. However, there is an advantage: Depending on how specific the skill is, the character rolls at a reduced difficulty compared to someone who is using the general skill.

For example: Enigmas is a general skill that covers puzzles of all sorts. It can be used to play games, unravel puzzles, and discern tactics (among other things.) Thus, the standard opposed roll for playing Chess is Intelligence + enigmas = 6. If a character chooses to specialize in game-play, he could roll Intelligence + board games = 5 vs his opponent's difficulty of 6. A character could choose to further specialize by taking the skill chess. This skill is so narrowly specialized that his difficulty is reduced by 2, and the character would roll Intelligence + Chess = 4.

I do not think it is legitimate to take a skill that is so ridiculously specialized as to merit a 3 point difficulty reduction. This would be akin to taking the skill driving in reverse while parallel parking. However, skill specializations still apply, such as Chess: Endgame.

Alternate Talents

Alternate Skills

Alternate Knowledges

http://www.angelfire.com/de2/createvtm/skills2.html

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