Talk:Vitreous Path
I spoke to Bruce a little about this last night, in that I find the level 4 and 5 of this path to be out of character with the rest. The Definition of "Vitreous" means glass like. So the object of this path should be the viewing/crossing of the shroud instead of manipulating it as such. I truly believe that the concept of touching/manipulating Oblivion should be it's own contained path, having nothing to do with ghosts, just essence of Oblivion.
So as a draft I would like to propose the following powers of this path to replace those of 4 and 5. You will find that these powers function like Auspex for wraiths. I think this makes more sense.
- Thoughts of the Dead : Description: The character can open a doorway between his mind and the ghosts, allowing her to read the ghost's surface thoughts as though they were spoken aloud. She may also speak her own thoughts to the ghost inaudibly, but the ghost cannot turn the tables on the character and listen in on her surface thoughts. A character with this ability can also use it to plunder the mind of the ghost, stealing information she desires and learning the target's secret wants and fears.
System: Roll Intelligence + Occult, with a difficulty equal to the subject's current Willpower. Each success allows you to ferret out one thought or fact from the ghost's surface thoughts. To penetrate another layer of thought (surface thoughts and basic attributes to hidden thoughts to simple memories to deeply buried thoughts) costs an additional success. Learning a single simple memory from a ghost costs three successes rather than just one. Peering into the mind of someone who has crossed the shroud can be dangerous, and any roll with only one success or a botch must be accompanied by a roll vs. willpower to not suffer psychic damage. This can be disorientation and pain, with the loss of 4 bashing damage levels, with a botch adding a temporary derangement (1 week).
Surface thoughts are fleeting and often quite chaotic, and the Storyteller is encouraged to describe a ghost's thoughts in terms of impressions and unexpected images instead of simply blurting out the ghost's plans and ideas. Such thoughts' interpretations are best left in the player's hands, though generous Storytellers may allow a Perception + Empathy roll to filter out the worst of the "noise" coming from a ghost's mind.
Your character may project her thoughts without a die roll beyond that described already. These thoughts, however, are obviously intrusions into the ghost's mind, so they cannot be disguised as his own feelings or ideas. However, your character may attempt to disguise her mental "voice" with a roll of Manipulation + Subterfuge (difficulty 9) so the ghost doesn't recognize her as the "speaker."
- Otto's Oculus
This power allows the vampire to spread the vision of Witness of Death (Nigrimancy Path) to all in a 10' radius. This requires the creation of a circle, and a successful Intelligence + Occult roll, difficulty 7. The circle needs to be drawn with an implement dipped in blood, though it takes 3 blood points to draw it from the Necromancers own body. Killing a chicken or larger creature produces the same effect. All those exposed (including the Necromancer) to the vision of the underworld must make a successful willpower roll or be given a temporary derangement(1 scene).
Brian's Comments: I like level 4 it seems to make sense.... I don't see any reason for a temporary derangement for seeing the underworld in level 5. ST could decide for a Rotscheck roll if the person is unaccustomed to looking at the land of the dead, botching such a roll would cause a derangement but should not happened normally and the Necromancer would never need to roll except in very brazier times.
Keith's Reply:I can live with pulling the description back. So it would read thus:
- Otto's Oculus
This power allows the vampire to spread the vision of Witness of Death (Nigrimancy Path) to all in a 10' radius.
Bruce's Commentary: It seems to me that Keith is right about the Vitreous Path, in that it's theme seems to be a kind of divination via the senses of the dead. As such, it should be amended, but there are obvious functions of the path that are valid and thus should be honored elsewhere. I propose that Vitreous Path / Nihilistics be divided into three separated, yet related paths much as Mortis evolved. The Vitreous Path should be amended as Keith has suggested with storyteller supervision, making it a a largely psychic path with a divinatory purpose. A second path concerning the manipulation of the forces of Oblivion would be detailed, and it would be called: Path of Ruin. The third and final Naga Raja path should concern the summoning and influence over the Plasmic entities conjured by the old discipline of Nihilistics; let us call it, the Path of Cruor.
The Nihilistic Paths
- -- Vitreous Path -- A diagnostic and extra-sensory path of necromancy.
- -- Path of Ruin -- A path that harnesses the power of Oblivion as a tool and more often, a weapon.
- -- Path of Cruor -- A path for summoning and controlling the elemental creatures of the Tempest known to wraiths as plasmics.
Keith's Reply: I concur and agree with your proposal Bruce. I think splitting the path like this makes a lot of sense. I look forward to working on it with you.
