http://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Talk%3ATransmutationTalk:Transmutation - Revision history2026-05-18T06:21:32ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.39.11http://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20131&oldid=prevCloudwalker at 21:08, 13 June 20142014-06-13T21:08:11Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>4. See 1. above; your glass can only hold so much, no matter how much water you have to pour into it</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>4. See 1. above; your glass can only hold so much, no matter how much water you have to pour into it</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>5. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This is governed by ST when approving metamagic</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">don't worry about it now..</del>..</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>5. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">We have agreed that as you go up in the path you get more control. If you have only level 4 and you get no extra success to refine your use(see above) then yes</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">you get a blob</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> At level 5 you get more control over your blob up to ST disgression</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6. This <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">power </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">very hard to dodge</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">without mind reading or some sort of elder Celerity. It works based on the success on the path roll, only powers that are very fluid(like conjuration) or do damage( Lure of flames or lvl 5 weather) require dice rolls. Lets keep </del>it <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">that way .... if you are reading you enemy's mind when he casts we will deal with that then.</del>....</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> </ins>This is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">governed by ST when approving metamagic</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">don't worry about </ins>it <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">now</ins>....</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. This power is very hard to dodge, without mind reading or some sort of elder Celerity. It works based on the success on the path roll, only powers that are very fluid(like conjuration) or do damage( Lure of flames or lvl 5 weather) require dice rolls. Lets keep it that way .... if you are reading you enemy's mind when he casts we will deal with that then.....</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">8. Past is the past, if we decide to change how something is used we change for everyone and don't worry that we did it wrong a year ago.</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">quick but I am at work....</ins>.</div></td></tr>
</table>Cloudwalkerhttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20130&oldid=prevCloudwalker at 21:04, 13 June 20142014-06-13T21:04:25Z<p></p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l119">Line 119:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>1. Path powers can't go above 5 success in effect. It is not laziness on the part of White wolf just a limitation on path powers. Extra success can be used to over come resistence or to refine control but you will never get more power than is listed at 5.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>1. Path powers can't go above 5 success in effect. It is not laziness on the part of White wolf just a limitation on path powers. Extra success can be used to over come resistence or to refine control but you will never get more power than is listed at 5.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">2. no problem with progresstion in general except there would be no 6, see above.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">3. the destruction of solid air.....It can happen....up to ST how..</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">4. See 1. above; your glass can only hold so much, no matter how much water you have to pour into it</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">5. This is governed by ST when approving metamagic, don't worry about it now....</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">6. This power is very hard to dodge, without mind reading or some sort of elder Celerity. It works based on the success on the path roll, only powers that are very fluid(like conjuration) or do damage( Lure of flames or lvl 5 weather) require dice rolls. Lets keep it that way .... if you are reading you enemy's mind when he casts we will deal with that then.....</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">7.</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Cloudwalkerhttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20129&oldid=prevCloudwalker at 20:57, 13 June 20142014-06-13T20:57:51Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Bruce's Reply:''' ''Jamie, as you and Brian are the only storytellers left, perhaps you should seek out his opinion or just do what you want. It your game after all.''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Bruce's Reply:''' ''Jamie, as you and Brian are the only storytellers left, perhaps you should seek out his opinion or just do what you want. It your game after all.''</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Brian's Reply</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Time to weight in although I am wondering if it matters....we will see.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1. Path powers can't go above 5 success in effect. It is not laziness on the part of White wolf just a limitation on path powers. Extra success can be used to over come resistence or to refine control but you will never get more power than is listed at 5.</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Cloudwalkerhttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20126&oldid=prevBruce at 23:34, 12 June 20142014-06-12T23:34:57Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I would also like to add that (since the power is "quick and dirty") the intended affect must be declared ''before'' the caster rolls to determine how effective the power is. This can allow for "hedging bets," ("I want to center the effect on his head," which could mean that even 5 success leave the victim's legs uncovered), or attempts that cover too small a volume to be useful ("I want to cover the doorway with an impenetrable wall of air," is probably useless without 3 or 4 successes).</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I would also like to add that (since the power is "quick and dirty") the intended affect must be declared ''before'' the caster rolls to determine how effective the power is. This can allow for "hedging bets," ("I want to center the effect on his head," which could mean that even 5 success leave the victim's legs uncovered), or attempts that cover too small a volume to be useful ("I want to cover the doorway with an impenetrable wall of air," is probably useless without 3 or 4 successes).</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Bruce's Reply:''' ''Jamie, as you and Brian are the only storytellers left, perhaps you should seek out his opinion or just do what you want. It your game after all.''</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Brucehttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20121&oldid=prevShadow Cat at 20:24, 12 June 20142014-06-12T20:24:05Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:24, 12 June 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Finished with responses.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Finished with responses.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I would <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">also </del>like to add a clarification that Gaol is limited by volume, not by what it imprisons: Multiple smaller creatures, if grouped together, may be caught in a single Gaol.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I would like to add a clarification that Gaol is limited by volume, not by what it imprisons: Multiple smaller creatures, if grouped together, may be caught in a single Gaol<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I would also like to add that (since the power is "quick and dirty") the intended affect must be declared ''before'' the caster rolls to determine how effective the power is. This can allow for "hedging bets," ("I want to center the effect on his head," which could mean that even 5 success leave the victim's legs uncovered), or attempts that cover too small a volume to be useful ("I want to cover the doorway with an impenetrable wall of air," is probably useless without 3 or 4 successes)</ins>.</div></td></tr>
</table>Shadow Cathttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20120&oldid=prevShadow Cat at 20:19, 12 June 20142014-06-12T20:19:49Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:19, 12 June 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l96">Line 96:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>5) Agreed. I withdraw the idea that more elaborate shapes may be created. You did not address my assertion that imposing even a rough shape on the "blob" should require a higher difficulty. What do you think?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>5) Agreed. I withdraw the idea that more elaborate shapes may be created. You did not address my assertion that imposing even a rough shape on the "blob" should require a higher difficulty. What do you think?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6) The use of metamagic to alter the effects of magic must be adjudicated at the time it is proposed. Without that exception, you seem to be agreeing with me.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6) The use of metamagic to alter the effects of magic must be adjudicated at the time it is proposed. Without that exception, you seem to be agreeing with me <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">that too little air left in the defined volume cannot restrict the movement of solid objects within it</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7) Again, I have to disagree with you. One permutation of the "Quick and Dirty" judgement is that it is not properly targeted via Identity. Instead, Gaol is targeted when the caster sees an area and chooses to try to affect it. Much as Lure of Flames requires a roll (Perception + firearms/archery) to target it, it seems that usefully placing a gaol should require a roll. Static items may not dodge, but individuals with exceptionally good reflexes (who can thus overcome the caster's attempt to place it properly with a dodge roll at difficulty 8) and who know it is coming could potentially avoid it. Gaol is not targeted by identity, and thus has no "homing" ability: if something is too quick for the caster, it is not caught.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7) Again, I have to disagree with you. One permutation of the "Quick and Dirty" judgement is that it is not properly targeted via Identity. Instead, Gaol is targeted when the caster sees an area and chooses to try to affect it. Much as Lure of Flames requires a roll (Perception + firearms/archery) to target it, it seems that usefully placing a gaol should require a roll. Static items may not dodge, but individuals with exceptionally good reflexes (who can thus overcome the caster's attempt to place it properly with a dodge roll at difficulty 8) and who know it is coming could potentially avoid it. Gaol is not targeted by identity, and thus has no "homing" ability: if something is too quick for the caster, it is not caught.</div></td></tr>
</table>Shadow Cathttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20119&oldid=prevShadow Cat at 19:21, 12 June 20142014-06-12T19:21:55Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 13:21, 12 June 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l76">Line 76:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>In order, my responses:</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>In order, my responses:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>1) My intent was never to increase or significantly alter the power. Instead, I was trying, with each clarification to address "grey areas" not covered in the all-too-short writeup provided by Whitewolf with what seem to me to be the most obvious and reasonable definitions. Thus, I hope to limit its possible abuse and overreach. Having re-read the changes I proposed, I still do not think that, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">accept </del>for clarifying the results of more than 5 successes (which I will address in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">order</del>), I have in any way done so. </div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>1) My intent was never to increase or significantly alter the power. Instead, I was trying, with each clarification to address "grey areas" not covered in the all-too-short writeup provided by Whitewolf with what seem to me to be the most obvious and reasonable definitions. Thus, I hope to limit its possible abuse and overreach. Having re-read the changes I proposed, I still do not think that, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">eccept </ins>for clarifying the results of more than 5 successes (which I will address in <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">point 4</ins>), I have in any way done so. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>2) To me, they seem to be a decent progression roughly in line with the geometric guidelines that whitewolf usually uses. I tried to use the "entrap a creature of greater size in each step" guideline as a starting point. However, if you don't like them, what would you propose?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>2) To me, they seem to be a decent progression roughly in line with the geometric guidelines that whitewolf usually uses. I tried to use the "entrap a creature of greater size in each step" guideline as a starting point. However, if you don't like them, what would you propose?</div></td></tr>
</table>Shadow Cathttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20118&oldid=prevShadow Cat at 19:20, 12 June 20142014-06-12T19:20:28Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-----</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-----</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Bruce's Comments (cut-and-pasted from email)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">;</ins>Bruce's Comments (cut-and-pasted from email)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I know that the position of storyteller carries a tremendous amount of responsibility. Ah, that was hard to swallow wasn't it? But, in the sense of fairness, justice and balance, it is true. How many of the other original vampire players would still be our fellow players if their storyteller had acted to maintain balance and fairness in the game? The truth is I don't known, but I believe that balance and fairness are critical as a storyteller, which is where I start to have a problem with dilution or concentration of power in paths of thaumaturgy or any other sorcery that have stood the test of time in our game and that means they have remained viable for decades of play.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I know that the position of storyteller carries a tremendous amount of responsibility. Ah, that was hard to swallow wasn't it? But, in the sense of fairness, justice and balance, it is true. How many of the other original vampire players would still be our fellow players if their storyteller had acted to maintain balance and fairness in the game? The truth is I don't known, but I believe that balance and fairness are critical as a storyteller, which is where I start to have a problem with dilution or concentration of power in paths of thaumaturgy or any other sorcery that have stood the test of time in our game and that means they have remained viable for decades of play.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-----</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-----</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Jamie's response to Bruce</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">;</ins>Jamie's response to Bruce</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Your points, as I understand them are (please correct me if I have misunderstood them):</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Your points, as I understand them are (please correct me if I have misunderstood them):</div></td></tr>
</table>Shadow Cathttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20117&oldid=prevShadow Cat at 19:19, 12 June 20142014-06-12T19:19:51Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 13:19, 12 June 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l68">Line 68:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>5) Anything more precise than a usefully oblong blob of air is not possible with this power.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>5) Anything more precise than a usefully oblong blob of air is not possible with this power.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6) You agree with me that solid objects caught within the defined blob displace the air that would be solidified. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I do not understand your "but" here</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or even if there </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">one</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6) You agree with me that solid objects caught within the defined blob displace the air that would be solidified. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Here</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">you consider the application of metamagic, which </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">beyond the scope of proposed clarifications of this power</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7) It is impossible to dodge or otherwise avoid being imprisoned by this power by mundane means.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7) It is impossible to dodge or otherwise avoid being imprisoned by this power by mundane means.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>5) Agreed. I withdraw the idea that more elaborate shapes may be created. You did not address my assertion that imposing even a rough shape on the "blob" should require a higher difficulty. What do you think?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>5) Agreed. I withdraw the idea that more elaborate shapes may be created. You did not address my assertion that imposing even a rough shape on the "blob" should require a higher difficulty. What do you think?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6) The use of metamagic to alter the effects of magic must be adjudicated at the time it is proposed. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Until then</del>, you seem to be agreeing with me.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>6) The use of metamagic to alter the effects of magic must be adjudicated at the time it is proposed. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Without that exception</ins>, you seem to be agreeing with me.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7) Again, I have to disagree with you. One permutation of the "Quick and Dirty" judgement is that it is not properly targeted via Identity. Instead, Gaol is targeted when the caster sees an area and chooses to try to affect it. Much as Lure of Flames requires a roll (Perception + firearms/archery) to target it, it seems that usefully placing a gaol should require a roll. Static items may not dodge, but <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">those </del>with exceptionally good reflexes (who can thus overcome the caster's attempt to place it properly with a dodge roll at difficulty 8) and who know it is coming could potentially avoid it. Gaol is not targeted by identity, and thus has no "homing" ability.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>7) Again, I have to disagree with you. One permutation of the "Quick and Dirty" judgement is that it is not properly targeted via Identity. Instead, Gaol is targeted when the caster sees an area and chooses to try to affect it. Much as Lure of Flames requires a roll (Perception + firearms/archery) to target it, it seems that usefully placing a gaol should require a roll. Static items may not dodge, but <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">individuals </ins>with exceptionally good reflexes (who can thus overcome the caster's attempt to place it properly with a dodge roll at difficulty 8) and who know it is coming could potentially avoid it. Gaol is not targeted by identity, and thus has no "homing" ability<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: if something is too quick for the caster, it is not caught</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I do not think that I am contradicting White Wolf by allowing a potential dodge: Rather, I am considering something that they (as they often did) failed to consider. I will go further and propose that targeting the Gaol requires a Perception + firearms (or archery) roll at difficulty 6, while dodging it requires a Dex + Dodge roll at difficulty 8 (ties going to the defender).</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I do not think that I am contradicting White Wolf by allowing a potential dodge: Rather, I am considering something that they (as they often did) failed to consider. I will go further and propose that targeting the Gaol requires a Perception + firearms (or archery) roll at difficulty 6, while dodging it requires a Dex + Dodge roll at difficulty 8 (ties going to the defender).</div></td></tr>
</table>Shadow Cathttp://maierstorm.org/Vampire/index.php?title=Talk:Transmutation&diff=20116&oldid=prevShadow Cat at 18:41, 12 June 20142014-06-12T18:41:00Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:41, 12 June 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l82">Line 82:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>3) If I had included the phrase "at storyteller's discretion," would it be less offensive to point out that solidified air is still composed of the same molecules, which, though held in place magically, can still alter their chemical bonds? The reason for this is that Thaumaturgy (and all non-true-Magick) is, as you put it, static. The molecules are held in place, but nothing else. I truly did mean to include "at storyteller's discretion." That's what I get for submitting a rough draft from work.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>3) If I had included the phrase "at storyteller's discretion," would it be less offensive to point out that solidified air is still composed of the same molecules, which, though held in place magically, can still alter their chemical bonds? The reason for this is that Thaumaturgy (and all non-true-Magick) is, as you put it, static. The molecules are held in place, but nothing else. I truly did mean to include "at storyteller's discretion." That's what I get for submitting a rough draft from work.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>4) Frankly, I think that you are misplacing the emphasis of "quick and dirty" here. It applies more appropriately elsewhere. Whitewolf has almost never detailed the effects of any power above five successes, but no where else have we limited anything to 5 successes (except when 5+ successes have a permanent or otherwise perfect effect). The authors at Whitewolf assume that most characters are extremely limited, and even those who are considered masters usually are written with 6-8 willpower. At difficulty 7, why should they bother to figure out 6 successes? This is much the same laziness they showed in refusing to consider that a werewolf might ever want to use a power of heightened perception to pierce Obfuscate.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>4) <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This point seems to be the main point of your objection, since you mention it more than once, and the major source of your vitriol. This is surprising to me, since I never considered otherwise. To artificially limit the number of successes available seems to me to contradict several presidents and undermine the premise behind the d10 system.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Frankly, I think that you are misplacing the emphasis of "quick and dirty" here. It applies more appropriately elsewhere. Whitewolf has almost never detailed the effects of any power above five successes, but no where else have we limited anything to 5 successes (except when 5+ successes have a permanent or otherwise perfect effect). The authors at Whitewolf assume that most characters are extremely limited, and even those who are considered masters usually are written with 6-8 willpower. At difficulty 7, why should they bother to figure out 6 successes? This is much the same laziness they showed in refusing to consider that a werewolf might ever want to use a power of heightened perception to pierce Obfuscate.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Instead, I see it this way: The lens through which power is poured may be flawed (causing a temporary effect, which seems to be the main objection raised by Whitewolf's off-screen Alchemists), but pouring more power through it still causes a greater, if still flawed, effect. Earlier ranks of Transmutation specifically allow more successes:<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Instead, I see it this way: The lens through which power is poured may be flawed (causing a temporary effect, which seems to be the main objection raised by Whitewolf's off-screen Alchemists), but pouring more power through it still causes a greater, if still flawed, effect. Earlier ranks of Transmutation specifically allow more successes:<br></div></td></tr>
</table>Shadow Cat