View source for Jamie's Grievances & Bruce's Responses

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'''<u>Introduction</u>:''' How to begin? Well, on Friday night (June 14th, 2012) the vampire chronicle took some new twists, both within the story and in the real world. The game details aren't very important to me, so I am going to skip those for what I believe to be the more pertinent points.<br> 

Most specifically, a series of grievances that have obviously been brewing for quite some time, but I must have either overlooked or somehow ignored. Having seen the results of another form of failing relationship, I can see a similar set of circumstances occurring in what I consider an very important relationship - my fifteen year old gaming group - who have gone from being friends and acquaintances to family.<br>

Today, I looked at the site and saw that Jamie aired a lot of pent up anger and dissatisfaction which I feel an obligation to not only reply to, but to act on. Jamie's grievances I will mark in green script and my replies will be in red. If anyone else would like to chime in, please do, as this is far from a private discussion.<br>

<span style="color:green;">To the specifics:  My character spends decades of his life trying to prepare defenses against the things that he has fallen victim to in the past.  When they occur again, I discover that I somehow missed the mark and created a series of placebos against my own fears, nothing more.  (Yet Bruce's character creates a simple level 3 Necromancy ritual – less flexible and less well adapted to metamagic - that destroys ALL magic, not just one vanishingly small category – how did that happen?).<br>

<span style="color:red;"> In my limited opinion, your character is one of the most well organized, prepared and focused neonates in the world. Unfortunately, while your roleplaying and tactics have been spectacular - the system we have been using to describe magical effects has failed to keep pace with the sophistication of our ideas and occult research. Thus, even though your character has some amazing rituals, their descriptions don't always suggest to others what you think they mean. We recently addressed that when we talked about the "Scarecrow ritual". From my perspective, this is simply a failure of the group to sit down and hammer out the specifics of certain terms and ideas - like the popular question of what exactly is a curse. I am going to skip over commentary on your fears and placebos because it sounds like venting to me - perhaps well deserved. The level three necromancy ritual that is being referred to, is an unweaving ritual, not true counter-magic, which must be used after the fact and may fail to remove effects that are too powerful for the caster (difficulty 9 or 10 for the caster). How did that happen? The storyteller - you - in this case help me come up with the system in the first place.<br>

<span style="color:green;">So what is a curse?  It'd be nice to have some kind of definition.<br> 
<span style="color:red;"> That is a complicated question and while I would like to address it here, I think it is something that the group is going to have to weigh in on together, in order for a meaningful and satisfying paradigm to evolve.<br>

<span style="color:green;">All I know is several things that are clearly NOT curses.<br>

<span style="color:green;">1)  An effect that forces the character to pursue his or her most basic lusts except when faced with imminent threat (that one affected Kaitlin).<br>
<span style="color:red;"> Technically, the level one power of the infernal "Path of Pleasure" - "Ecstasy" insures that the target experiences intense pleasure of the caster's choice. While the effect does have a mechanic game modifier, its minor by most thaumaturgic standards and amounts in my opinion, to little more than an infernal party trick. Is it a curse? If it is a curse, its a fun one, that few real people would take seriously. I will admit, based on my own "vague" definition of a curse, it may well qualify.<br> 

<span style="color:green;">2)  An effect that changes the character's basic nature against his will, forcing him to become a selfish, sniveling creature that he abhors.  
<span style="color:red;"> Degradation - the level three power on the infernal "Path of Defiler" has two alternating and distinct effects. The first is the ability to temporarily change a target's nature. The second is to temporarily inflict a target with a derangement. While the second alternating effect sounds like a curse to me, the first effect takes nothing from the target. The target is forced to see his or her life through different eyes, live his or her life differently in order to regain willpower - but in many ways that could ultimately be a beneficial experience that could promote greater understanding and or enlightenment. In the case that Jamie bitterly refers to, his character was targeted with the "rogue" nature, which happens to be the nature of a centuries long friend and ally. I won't even deign to comment on most of this portion of Jamie's rant, because that is what it is and in a backhanded way, he is insulting another person entirely.

<span style="color:green;">3)  A permanent effect that leaves a mystical trail for anyone who cares to follow.
<span style="color:red;"> If the level one thaumaturgic ritual "Illuminate the Trail of Prey" and the level three thaumaturgic ritual "Track the Transgressor" are curses, then I will concede that the necromantic ritual that allows Ambrogino Giovanni's agents to track the characters is also a curse. <br>

<span style="color:green;">4)  An effect that slowly invades and corrupts a character's soul, turning him into the most corrupt and immoral being we as a group have ever encountered.
<span style="color:red;"> This is a more complex issue for the following reasons. The effect that is invading and rewriting your memories and soul, isn't one effect, but two distinct and interlocking effects. If the effect changed one or even just a few of your memories, I could not actually call that a curse. However, taken en toto, these two complex and interlocking effects are a curse - for you - because you despise the person they are remaking you into. Consider this however, if this same effect were used on the most heinous, demented and violent criminals in mortal society to remake them into healthy, constructive and morally upstanding people - would you feel it a curse? Would anyone? Though the person who came up with the ritual was criminally insane, his reason for doing so wasn't the pain and anguish that it would inflict on its target, it was the chance to cheat death. Magic - like morality - is interpretable.     

<span style="color:green;">I do not understand how any of these are not curses?!? 
<span style="color:red;"> After due consideration, some - some - of them are. The problem is that not everything you would define as a curse, is definable as a curse to me. I think gaining the opinions of the other players and storytellers would provide a better consensus as to what is and is not a curse.

<span style="color:green;">By the vague description that Bruce occasionally refers to, they all qualify, even though he says they don't.  They cause penalties to the character suffering from them, and they last.  It does not seem to me that a curse must strip dice or increase difficulties to qualify.  Impaired judgement, and slowly being turned into something else may be somehow less subtle than a game mechanic, but they are also much more terrifying and devastating effects.
<span style="color:red;"> You are entitled to your opinion and I am very glad of one thing at least, that there is still something left in this game that is devastating and terrifying.

<span style="color:green;">Since creating the ritual, I've used it twice.  The second time, after wasting a precious week of my character's life when he could not afford to be away at all, I discovered that my pitiful magic was no match for the power of the plot device.  Invoke ST God character here.<br>
<span style="color:red;"> I am confused by both the reference to an unnamed ritual that was used twice and the circumstances and or story in which it was used to minimal effect against an all powerful plot device. I'm sorry that I don't know which scene or chapter, let alone which story inspired this terrible feeling in you my friend. Finally, I must say that I have never intended to invoke a storyteller-god or god-character as a plot device.

<span style="color:green;">So, yes, I find it frustrating when I follow all the rules, set up defenses, and still find that every Tom, Dick, and Harry asshole has casually wandered through them.  Yes, there are a few bad-asses in the world of darkness that can overcome my preparations and treat me like a hand puppet.  There are many more that could get lucky and get through.  Just ONCE, for my SANITY, I'd like to see something work!....  just once.... please? <br>
<span style="color:red;"> Let me first say that, I never understood the depth of your dissatisfaction with my storytelling and that you regarded me as so heavy handed. From this statement, I resemble your old college dungeon-master who used and abused you so much that you still speak of it decades later. Over the years, I have tried very hard to change my storytelling style, to edit those things that my players found most offensive - first it was the darkness, then it was the minimal use of mortals, etc. In my own opinion, I have made strides in improving my style to appeal to a wider audience - its a shame that all that work was for nothing. The worst part is that you didn't feel you could tell me the entirety of you feelings until now.

<span style="color:green;">So when I'm subjected to another per-scripted slug fest over something meaningless I realize the truth:  that my character is nothing more than words on an already written page, and my delusions of free will are all the more pathetic for my desire.  Casey Jones is at the helm, and the only things I can do are sit passively, pull on a non-functioning hand brake, or throw myself beneath the wheels.  Of course, last time I took door number three, it turned out to be an illusion.<br>
<span style="color:red;"> Well, what can I say? Here your vitriol has reached its peak. But, "Old #638" is about to be decommissioned, but as Casey, I did enjoy my last big journey down the tracks of the World of Darkness. No regrets.

<span style="color:green;">A third subject:  I really think that is time for Bruce to either give up playing and take full control of the game, or allow other storytellers their bally wicks.  If I had not given up Gabrovo, I would have pulled my hair out in frustration as Bruce has continually edited the town.  This last two sessions would have given me apoplexy.  Of course that is now Brian's problem, and he can accept or deal with it as he sees fit.<br>
<span style="color:red;"> You win. I quit.  

<span style="color:green;">However, it is not appropriate to start texting your storyteller the day before a game telling him what specific plot elements should be part of the next session. It is good as a storyteller to know what your plans are so that I can better account for them.  It is not good to be told when and how a previously unused Methuselah should reveal herself to the the characters.  Please, if I ever ST in this game again, DON'T!<br>
<span style="color:red;"> Agreed. In all honesty, I always felt that if I was willing to play in another storyteller's game, I ought to accept that - that individual is the GM and not backseat drive. Personally, on this account, I feel vindicated - I don't think I ever told you what you could run or not run as a player or another storyteller. But, that is not my problem anymore.

<span style="color:green;">This relates again to my frustration with what Phineus (not the Methuselah referred to in the previous paragraph) is becoming in the game.  He is too personally Bruce's character, capable of anything, infinitely wise (with his direct connection to the ST's understanding of current plots), unchallengeable, inexorable and unstoppable.  Bruce is pouring his hopes, dreams and ambitions for what was once his character into the vessel of Phineus, and, unopposed and unchallenged, he has become them.  Like Ed Greenwood's Elminster, he is too much, and needs to be dialed back if used at all.  Please, before I puke.<br>
<span style="color:red;"> Harsh words my friend. Perhaps, unconsciously I did as you say. Its sad to know you didn't give me the benefit of the doubt as to my motivations, to which you of course would be the impartial judge. I accept you back-handed compliment though, I would be proud to be Phineus Niger and perhaps you are right on all counts - I'm guilty.<br>

<span style="color:green;">A fourth subject:  Don't bludgeon me with unwanted prophesy!  There are many roads to any given destination, and being told that I have exactly two options is insulting.  When I feel the need for guidance, I will seek it out, bleed for it, and make the sacrifices that make it mean something (unlikely, given the usefulness of my previous experiences with future divination).<br>
<span style="color:red;"> To be honest, I was always terrible with the story-hook of prophesy, the main reason was that it required the expert scripting that Jamie has so often accused me. I never felt comfortable with prophesy - its a tricky device that requires more skill than I possess. Ave Homer!!!

<span style="color:green;">And finally, please, as a player I am begging you, don't force me out of Sofia and into Gabrovo.  Morgan doesn't need a keeper, he needs to learn to chew what he bites off.  Frankly, he's bitten into more than I care to chew at the moment anyway.  I won't enjoy Gabrovo as much as I enjoy Sofia on those occasions that I actually get to experience the city.
<span style="color:red;"> No one - no one - is forcing you or your character do anything. You as a player completely misunderstood what I as a storyteller was trying to reveal to you. In all likelihood, it was my failure to get the point across. The point was that the presence of the Anexhexaton (the real Anexhexaton) in the coterie's possession would inexorably change the course of your collective lives, if you managed to keep hold of it or not. You came back in time from the second iteration to stop the Giovanni from succeeding in Augustus' mad plot to destroy the world and thereby even out the playing field of the Jyhad, between himself and the true Antediluvians. Sofia and the Methuselah Triglav were meant to give Bulgaria a true "Old World" feel of darkness and ancient terror. Its clear that I failed to provide the kind of stories you wanted to participate in and when I did, they just weren't quite 'fair' enough. As to what you have to say about Morgan, for once your vitriol fails you, but your character certainly deserves another willpower point - as my last act as your storyteller - I grant you that.

<span style="color:green;">Ok, I've probably insulted and ruffled enough feathers for one night.  I hope I really am going to sleep now.<br>
<span style="color:red;"> Yes, you have. But, I want you to know that I understand and accept that you needed to say these things and that they even have some validity. I would be willing to play with you as a character and a player at anytime. I would accept you as a storyteller without bias or regret. But, I will never act as storyteller for you again my friend and I hope you will understand if I decline to finish out the current story in Gabrovo. As a storyteller, I say farewell to the World of Darkness without regret for it will be with me always and perhaps I will get to visit there from time to time as a player.<br>

<span style="color:red;">benedixit tenebris - Bruce<br>

<span style="color:purple;"> Edit - Kaitlin....
Look. Bruce, don't quit. Just because Jamie doesn't agree with some of the things that you have done.. The response should be to talk about it, not bail. If y ou have no desire, fine. But I for one like what you do, I like the depth of the stories, and while not perfect, it shows you are human.

<span style="color:red;"> Kate - Thank you for the positive commentary and sentiments. But, I feel this has been brewing for quite a while and its time for other people to take up the mantle of storyteller.

<span style="color:blue;"> Brian:  I would also like to point out that Jamie was very tired, he mentioned it more than once, and tried to delete what he had wrote to put in a more kind and/or constructive way.  We all prowl the recent changes or you would not have seen it. On the issue, we need to work some things out...  We have had to do so several times in the past.  The desire for Bruce to play in a world of his own creation makes sense to me.  I have tried to provide him with time to do so.  Edward the character is a construct and plot device I am glad that Bruce has had fun playing him.  I do admit that to have fun as a storyteller I have had to accept that I am not(nor want to be) primary storyteller.  If I want secrets to remain secrets to me and my character I have to accept that someone else has to know them and how they effect anything I story tell. That is it for now.....

<span style="color:red;"> Jamie being tired wasn't the point. These complaints have obviously been building for too long. I am sorry that I didn't perceive that or find a constructive way to solve those problems. I want to state emphatically, that the game should continue and other storytellers should take this opportunity to make their own mark in our game. The World of Darkness was a collaboration to begin with, as has our game. Make this an opportunity for long overdue changes and let us move forward. I for one have enjoyed playing and wish to continue.

<span style="color:green;">  Jamie:<br>
<span style="color:green;">  Ah, for the days when history wasn't so easily tracked and erasures were permanent.  I DID remove the ill-considered rant in the first place, after all.  I was in an exceptionally bad mood for no good reason at all (I could risk being un-PC and describe myself as "hormonal"), and it only got worse as the night wore on.  My inexplicable mood bled over into my impressions about the game and that session.  Yes, there have been some too-long unresolved arguments about what works how, but that was no excuse for some of the things that I posted.<br>
<span style="color:green;">  While president, Abraham Lincoln used to write such rants as letters to members of his cabinet and other lawmakers.  He would get all of his frustrations onto the page, then, rather than sign the letter, he would write "unsigned, unsent," and file them away.  No one knew of these rants until after his death.  Not that I should be comparing myself to one of our greatest presidents, except to say that it would have been better if I had not posted the rant at all, just left it on my own hard drive alongside a few other such screeds.  The same extreme bad mood that prompted me to write it impaired my judgement enough to post it regardless of the many unfair and over-the-top things I said in it.  Lincoln was wiser than I.<br>
<span style="color:green;">  So, let me say it clearly, despite my mood the other night, '''I don't want to quit the game.'''  I have enjoyed it greatly over the years, and I think it has many more good years in it.  If the game had remotely been as overbearing as the ST you mentioned, Bruce, it never would have lasted.<br>
<span style="color:green;">  As an explanation of the ritual I failed to name that has been used twice, once successfully, and once not-so-successfully, I was referring to [[Effigy]].  I removed an infernal curse left behind after we captured Dylan (at a 2 higher difficulty than the ritual specified - if the system is broken, let's fix it).  The curse that I failed to truly remove was the Emperor's Curse that Kaitlin's character brought back from the distant past.  The week spent trying to break it (at the time, I thought successfully) would have much better been used to re-join Sofia society a week sooner.  Again, it seems that both Kaitlin and I sacrificed a great deal to a band-aid.

<span style="color:green;">  I will make my arguments about the rest of the curse-related material in this page:  [[What is a curse?]]

<span style="color:green;">  I have felt increasingly bludgeoned by the character of Phineas, but that is not entirely the ST's fault:  My frustration and horror have increased by the naivete with which some of the other players have treated the character.  They are dragging the entire group to hell with them.  He has become in invasive and intrusive force in our lives, and will have to be dealt with.  Enough said about that.<br>
<span style="color:green;">  In suggesting that Bruce back off and let other storytellers control their own stories, I meant that and ONLY that.  I hoped to make the joint storytelling effort more collaborative. I never dreamed that it would be interpreted to mean that Bruce should quit storytelling.  Bruce, It will be a great loss to us all if you do.

<span style="color:green;">  So, to sum up:  I never should have posted it.  Since I kicked the beehive, and I can't erase the history (and I was fully aware that we all regularly check the changes and simply removing the offending material cannot stuff the cat back into the bag), it is probably better that the things I said are not being ignored.  It will take time to fix it if it can be fixed, but understand that I went way too far and said a lot that I regret and much more than I meant.  I hope we can continue to play and have fun for many years to come.

<span style="color:green;">Pax Aeternam, Jamie

== Monday - June 18th, 2012 ==
<span style="color:red;">How do I express this in the most direct and least offensive means possible? Jamie's outburst did offend me, but only momentarily. We have been friends too long for me to let a disagreement, argument or bad day seriously effect our relationship - to have let that happen, would have been not just silly, it would have pure stupidity.

<span style="color:red;"> However I have found storytelling by committee to be a less than desirable experience and this latest circumstance has simply made up my mind for me. I knew this decision was different from other momentary fluctuations of satisfaction when I immediately felt better afterwards. 

<span style="color:red;">Storytelling has always been a joy for me, but over the last few years, I have felt a marked decrease satisfaction after each session and story. I saw that my storytelling wasn't up to the level of my expectations and that has been my primary circumstance of my dissatisfaction. While my nature is not really that of perfectionist, it is a portion of my psyche that empresses itself more as I grow older.

<span style="color:red;">If I have any regrets about the statements I have made of late, and they are remarkably few, it would be walking away so abruptly. Its one thing to make a decisive change in your life, its another to do so when it affects so many other people, perhaps in a negative fashion. Just as leaving an employer abruptly is unprofessional, leaving you as a storyteller without some resolutions and allowing the other potential storytellers a period of adjustment isn't the correct way to behave. Therefore, with that in mind, I will continue to run temporarily, until the game has arrived at a place where my plots and stories have come to a decisive conclusion. Hopefully, this period of time will be sufficient for anyone else who wishes to step forward and make their contributions to our game. It does not change my decision to play more and act as a storyteller less.

<span style="color:red;">Speaking in a more positive light, I want to say that playing under multiple storytellers has been very agreeable. It is said that variety is the spice of life and for me, in this circumstance, it has certainly been so.

<span style="color:red;">I really want to encourage the other storytellers in their pursuits and in expressing their view of the World of Darkness. Its too easy to grow accustomed to the paradigm of any particular storyteller. The World of Darkness is a gothic-punk world and to a degree we have lost sight of that in certain portions of the game. That flavor is rare and exceptional, its not the only flavor, but it is the flavor of our age and the vampires that are created during this period are characterized by it. 

<span style="color:red;">We as characters are gothic-punks to one degree or another: the neo-feudalist voivode, the neo-pagan ashen priest, the techno-industrialist philosopher and the Roma-adopted carnival owner all share one specific element - they are icons of the turbulent turn of the twenty-first century. Much like Louis from Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles - you are archetypes of change from the gothic-punk world as it transforms into something else. Like life, unlife is lived in the moment and the one thing that vampires cannot stop is change - it is inevitable. 

<span style="color:red;">Fifteen years ago, our story was an infant. It has progressed through obvious childhood and has now entered a period of angst filled youth. This period is by definition one of turbulence, but also of staggering growth. Puberty is the developmental stage from child to adult and the storytellers who guide our chronicle through this phase will have a significant influence on our collective progeny - the vampire chronicle - as it becomes a full fledged adult. Anyone of you can be a storyteller and too many of you have chosen to take a backseat to the direction in which our chronicle will progress. Being a storyteller is a unique experience and it isn't necessarily for everyone, but everyone of you should at least try your hand at it.

<span style="color:red;">'''Change of Subject and Perspective.'''

<span style="color:red;">For myself, I have chosen to turn my attention inward and spend a period solely as a player. It is possible that this is a selfish decision motivated by laziness, but I do not believe that to be the case. Every storyteller has observed that there comes a time to set aside their art to gain a fresh perspective and that is how I am approaching this period of my life. 

<span style="color:red;">I as a player have felt for a long time, that sorcery in our game has pushed the chronicle in a particular direction, I was a definite contributor to that mentality, but for myself I want to return to the fundamentals of vampire. This doesn't mean my character will disdain sorcery or work against it, but rather that it will not take the limelight in my character's unlife.

<span style="color:red;">In the beginning of our chronicle, Bruce was a pretty angst filled childe. He was a violent, angry, vindictive, and mentally ill. Some would say that wasn't such a good beginning, but I would disagree. Vampire is specifically a game of darkness, and I explored that portion of my psyche pretty thoroughly. 

<span style="color:red;">The clans are like lenses through which the character can view unlife, the Tzimisce lens was a primal one for me and typified my personal explorations in a childlike way. I can even see it now, the need for food, a curiosity about sensuality and defecation - which my neonate character managed to throw in all directions and in an almost artistic fashion. I tried early on to evolve into other clans, unfortunately, I was humored by various storytellers who should probably have told me to stick with it and see this medium to its conclusion. 

<span style="color:red;">Continuity can be both good and bad in role-playing games. Sometimes a fresh perspective can really make a difference, not only in enthusiasm, but in performance. I have noticed that in each of you, as you changed clans and explored new sides of yourselves in new ways, there was marked growth and a growing maturity. 

<span style="color:red;">In truth, I am torn by the possibility of learning through continuity as a Tzimisce or some other clan. Eduard the Toreador has been a distinct change and one that has shown me a great deal about myself - most specifically my own inner indifference to humanity. Its been a real role-playing challenge and if role-playing challenges were my sole focus I would continue with the Toreador. 

<span style="color:red;">From the beginning, I have felt an affinity with darkness, a lot of other people have remarked on that aura - one that I dismissed as an affectation of pessimism. The last couple years of my life I have had what I would call due cause to be pessimistic, but contrary to that, I have felt a growing gravity towards the positive perspective. I feel my life has only been enriched by those travails and if so, then they served a distinct purpose. 

<span style="color:red;">So pessimism and darkness don't equate, certainly not for me, at any rate. During our journey into the past, not that I am advocating time travel, I noticed a distinct attraction to playing a Lasombra. I didn't get to play it long, but there was more than a minor attraction. Some of Jamie's recent remarks hit a cord on the character of Phineus Niger, the character's pervasive influence wasn't due just to its age and power, but rather to its distinctive perspective. Being a sorcerous Methuselah he could have chosen to be anything or anyone, he chose to be a Lasombra. Why? Why did I as a storyteller chose that venue for the character?

<span style="color:red;">The answer is both difficult and simple. For years I role-played a Sabbat pack leader or pack advisor depending on circumstances; I never considered why I would do that or that it might imply something more about myself. But it did. I remember when I wrote up the Magnate nature and my then wife, said "Wow, that is really you". I also remember how good it felt to step onto one of the roads of kingship, it was like finally finding a groove that didn't rub me wrong. So what am I looking for in roleplaying: influence, power and darkness. Yes, I want to play a Lasombra - very badly, or I wouldn't have irritated Jamie so with the character of Phineus. Wish me well, the Abyss beacons and I must be about my dark work.

<span style="color:red;">Benedixit Tenebris - Bruce