View source for Talk:Lineage of Mithras

;[[Lineage of Mithras]]

''Ok, I think there is some confusion here.''

''From your first list, I have some thoughts on the following vampires.''

''[[Bindusara]] could well be Mithras' childe from before the diablerie that made him 4th generation, but there is no canon evidence of a claim either way.''

''[[Marius]] could indeed be Bindusara's childe, but neither claims the other, while he does claim childer [[Hrothulf]] (380) and [[Gracis Nostinus]] (412). I think its important to remember that there was more than one ancient Ventrue in Rome during its transition from the Republic to Empire. In fact, some of the most ancient and powerful Ventrue at least visited for decades at a time if not resided there for centuries. An excellent example would be [[Antonius]] who was a member of the Triumvirate of Constantinople. Both Antonius and [[Collat]], progeny of Tinia were in Rome for centuries and Collat was the undisputed prince of Rome for centuries after the departure of the Inconnu. Sadly, not every Roman vampire is likely to be a member of Mithras' progeny. The one defining feature that Mithras seemed to like in his childer was that they be great warriors and that limits many of the Roman vampires and the Roman wannabes.''

''[[Chiclena]], [[Gracis Nostinus]], and [[Arthragorn Albrecht]], I know nothing of these and I guess that is a storyteller's prerogative.''

''[[Lady Anne Bowesley]] is definitely claimed in numerous sources as a descendant of Mithras, although she has advanced her generation via secret diablerie.''

''Again the following Ventrue: [[Odo D'Ochai]], [[Michel du Baine]], [[Thomas Carlyle]], [[Dorian Adams]], [[Lord Jacque Pareau]], [[Robert Pedder]], [[Tai-Pan]], [[Camille T'sien]], [[Quincy Cullen]], [[Sir William Pennington]], [[Elizabeth Winton]], [[Leander Phipps]], [[Vincent Day]], and [[Vannevar Thomas]] are all wild cards as there is no real evidence either way. You could of course say that any soldier from England is a member of Mithras' bloodline, but we know from World of Darkness 2, Dark Ages British Isles and Victorian Age Vampire - London by Night, that simply isn't the truth. A few ancient Ventrue were already ensconced in England when Mithras arrived and while he killed a number of them, some of them lived and produced childer. Nor was he the only Roman era Ventrue to journey from Rome to England, [[Tiamat]] did so and used northern England / Southern Scotland as her secret resting place.''

''[[James Mannerly]] isn't canon, but rather Jamie's creation, but still an interesting character who is obviously a Ventrue of Mithras line.'' 

''The remainder of your first list, I have never even heard of, but a lot of French Ventrue are descendants of [[Alexander]] of Paris. Alexander was dethroned and destroyed by [[Francois Villon]] in the later Dark Ages. But up to the time of his destruction he regularly sparred with Mithras. It is theorized that Mithras may have backed Villon against Alexander, but of course there is no evidence.''

''Of your second list: [[Baron Stephen]] could have been Mithras childe or grandchilde.''

''[[Cretheus]] is a possibility, but he wasn't a warrior if I remember correctly, rather a statesman of Rome and could easily have been sired one of the other 4th generation Ventrue to visit the Eternal City.''

''Unfortunately, I have never heard of [[Hill the Warrior]], but obviously the Duke and Duchess of Amber are claimed. The character of Geraint is unknown to me, but [[Marcus Verus]] is well described in the Dark Ages British Isles which is where his description and statistics are taken from.''

''[[Rhodry ap Geraint]] is likely Jamie's creation or taken from Dark Ages British Isles, I am not certain. [[Julian / Julius Cerialis]] on the other hand is mentioned in Dark Ages British Isles and the Ventrue Chronicles, he was always at odds with Mithras, but their struggle never came to blows. His sire and Embrace are never attested, but I have the theory that he was sired by [[Tiamat]] to pave the way for her journey to northern England. As a storyteller, I have used that theory as the basis for much of what is happening in [[York]] and his descendants: [[Thrand]], [[Katla Thranddottir]], and [[John de York]], plus John's progeny are all descended of Tiamat's line of Ventrue.''

''The remaining French Ventrue seem likely descendants of Alexander of Paris, as mentioned above.''

''Owain ap Ieuan, aka. Owain Evans could be a descendant of Mithras or a native Ventrue. The character's backstory is so bad, that I could easily ignore him completely or significantly modify it.''

''My thought to you would be this: take a look at Dark Ages British Isles, Victorian Age London by Night, Victorian Age Companion and especially the Ventrue Chronicles to determine who the descendants of Mithras really are or like Jamie create a few of your own. Not that you need to do any of this actually, not for a one shot in London, but of course if you are planning on running a more lengthy story / chronicle there...well...''

''Interestingly enough, a descendant of Mithras you missed is: [[Kyle Strathcona]] a Scottish Ventrue was Embraced by an English Ventrue of Mithras' line [[Collinsworth]]. In Montreal by Night, Kyle writes a letter to Mithras declaring himself Sabbat and decrying Mithras as a tyrant and that Kyle is proud to be the first of Mithras' bloodline to join the Sabbat.'' -- "The Magister 13:07, 7 April 2016 (MDT)"

''P.S. -- In our game, an elder of the Manus Nigrum Embraced [[Brian O'Reilly]] (Brian's character), that ancient is called [[Heinrich of Volstag]] and he is a direct childe of Mithras from before the time in which Mithras settled in England, when he still traveled with the Legions of Rome, but after the diablerie that raised his generation to 4th.'' -- "The Magister 13:49, 7 April 2016 (MDT)"